Dr SHARON LAMBERT
talks to Michael Nunn
about meeting people with a tape recorder,
growing up on The Marsh,
and the use of history

September 2004

MN: You said when you arrived that you have been at work all morning. What exactly do you do?

SL: I teach various history classes to adults in the community. I design the classes to suit whatever community group I'm working with and they cover such topics as local history, oral history and reminiscence at a variety of venues including Cartmel Day Centre, Derwent Court sheltered housing, the Polish Centre and the St. Thomas More Centre.

I suppose the class that started it all off, and the one that I'm closest to, is my Marsh history class. I started that five years ago as a response to negative publicity in the local press. I'm from the Marsh estate and wanted to show the rich history of community spirit that exists there.

I hope I've succeeded because people certainly seem more aware of the good things about the Marsh nowadays and the local papers have written some very positive articles recently. I actually won an award from the British Association for Local History for an article that I wrote about the Marsh class which was presented at the British Library (see URLs below).

This morning I've been teaching a course on Georgian Lancaster to a fantastic group of women who are following a drug rehabilitation programme at a residential unit in Lancaster. It's a class that I particularly enjoy because they're so enthusiastic and hungry to learn.

I also recently started writing a monthly life-history article for the Lancaster Guardian. [It's a shame that there is no sight of these columns on the paper's website – Ed] which I really enjoy because I love talking to people about their experiences and it gives me the opportunity to interview lovely elder citizens of Lancaster and celebrate their lives in print. They've all been really chuffed with their articles and it's also raised my profile as an oral historian.

Basically I'm a freelance oral historian and writer who's always open to offers but I have to make a living as a tutor in the meantime.

MN: How did you get into this line of work?

SL: Graduating from Lancaster University at the age of 40, with a BA first class honours and a PhD, I suddenly found myself over-qualified for my previous job (care worker with mentally ill people). I tried teaching at the university for a while but I prefer working with people from my own working-class background and reaching people who are usually excluded from education. My motto is: "If I can do it then so can you if you want to.'

MN: So you enjoy it, then?

SL: I love all of my work that involves working with people and I love writing, but I'm gradually being worn down by the increasing bureaucracy that the Adult College insists accompanies every class I teach. My classes are very popular precisely because they lack the intimidating formality of the traditional classroom environment but I'm being increasingly pressured to conform to restrictive teaching patterns that were the reason why the majority of my students left education at the earliest opportunity.

The worst part is the mountain of forms I'm being asked to provide, not for my students' or my benefit but purely to satisfy college audit procedures and justify the proliferation of managers in the place. It's a real cheek considering the insecure, casual nature of part-time adult tutors' employment.

I recently finished working on the Bridges Project with older and young people on the Marsh and Ryelands which was funded directly from the National Institute of Adult and Continuing Education and allowed us free rein to teach and record learning in the manner that we felt most appropriate. It was a great success.

MN: How did you get the ‘history bug'?

SL: Certainly not at school (Our Lady's High School, Lancaster) where I failed history ‘O' level). When I went to Lancaster University as a mature student I was introduced to social history by two inspiring lecturers, Bill Fuge and John Walton. I can still remember going to John's lecture for the first time – he was talking about illegitimacy and pre-marital sex in early modern England and I felt just like Willy Russell's eponymous heroine Rita. My previous experience of history had been confined to politicians and kings and queens, but suddenly I could relate personally to the ordinary people that John was talking about.

And when I discovered oral history and its use as a means of ‘writing history from below' there was no stopping me!

MN: You studied as a ‘mature student'. Were you a tearaway at school?

SL: No, quite the opposite, I was the little mouse who was scared to speak up in class but very studious. I never really felt comfortable at school. I was in the top class of my Catholic comprehensive school but most of my friends from home (the Marsh estate) were either in lower classes or went to Castle School. I left after ‘O' levels simply because none of my friends or family had ever gone to university and it never occurred to me that I could.

MN: What made you go to university so late in life?

SL: At 32 and with three sons, I was a bit bored at being a housewife and realised I wasn't going to get any further in my part-time job [as a residential social worker] without a degree. I asked my then employers, Social Services, for secondment to do a degree in social work, because at that time they did provide financial and other support for staff who wanted further training and development.

I had already got the requisite two ‘A'-levels at night school of my own accord, but Social Services said no, which was disappointing because other colleagues had been given study support. But I had heard of the course in Irish Studies at the University of Liverpool , which really drew me, and I asked at the University of Lancaster if I could do that here through their Department of Independent Studies, which allows students greater flexibility in the constituent parts of their degree.

Lancaster said yes, so I quit my job and just did it myself. I ended up studying more history modules than anything else and majoring in history, as I said before, it was the inspiration of the two lecturers who ‘lit the fire' which is still burning, despite efforts from the academic world to put it out!

MN: Sharon, I would say something about wetting bonfires, but this is a family website! But seriously, a PhD is a landmark achievement. What does your thesis argue?

SL: My thesis is entitled ‘Female emigration from post-independence Ireland: an oral history of Irish women in Lancashire c.1922-1960.'

Irish women's emigration has usually been hidden in histories of Irish emigration based on male experiences. Ask people e.g. to think of a typical Irish emigrant and they usually think of an Irish navvy and yet between 1871 and 1971 more women than men actually left Ireland. The typical Irish person in Britain was more likely to be a nurse than a navvy.

Moreover, it had been assumed that because Irish women weren't visible in Britain, they had assimilated into British culture. I argued the opposite: that Irish women generally maintained strong cultural, familial and religious ties with Ireland after emigration.

[Dr Sharon Lambert's doctoral thesis is now publicly available in book form: and is available from local bookshops or the University's Centre for North West Regional Studies]

MN: I suppose there is an infinite amount of untapped knowledge and information in our local communities that will simply disappear as people get older and die. Can we ever recover it?

SL: Not if we don't record it while we can. One of my greatest regrets is that I discovered oral history after my dad had died. I would love to have a record of his memories.

MN: You seem to have wide interests as your name crops up in some unlikely places such as Carnforth railway station and St Peter's Catholic Cathedral. Is there a common link?

SL: A love of social history, an interest in people from all kinds of backgrounds, and a mission to democratise history by portraying it from the perspective of communities that have traditionally been excluded or hidden from the historical record. I love the process of researching history and when I'm asked I'll investigate any community or area's history.

I liken it to being a detective, uncovering bits of information from wherever I can find them and building as full a picture as possible about past lives. It's an ideal job for someone as nosey as me and no matter how diverse different societies initially appear there are always common themes and links to be found.

MN: What plans do you have for the future?

SL: I haven't worked out the ‘how' yet but I'm desperate to carry on doing the work I do without the interference and restrictions of bureaucratic managers. Unfortunately, with one son at college and another just bought his first flat I'll have to be a wage slave for a while longer.

MN: What's the next project?

SL: Nothing in the pipeline but I'm open to offers.

MN: I hope you are not waiting long - there should be a queue. What about family and personal achievements?

SL: I'm married with three sons who I'm really proud of, aged 26, 22 and 18. I married young! My husband works for the electricity board, one son is a postman, one is a partner in a building business and my youngest is starting university in Liverpool this week.

MN: At university – poor lad! We have both taught in higher and further education. I have had – and still have – many concerns with the current UK educational system. Without doing a separate interview, what are your main reservations with teaching nowadays?

SL: As in virtually every other occupational sphere e.g. health, social services etc. there has been a shift in importance from professional to managerial: the most influential people in education nowadays appear to be managers and accountants rather than tutors and students. At the risk of sounding old I'm reminded of the title of the old comedy programme: "Never Mind the Quality, Feel the Width'.

MN: I agree entirely, though would not have been so polite about the bean-counters and the bottom-line philosophies.
Let's move into a lighter vein: what is your biggest wish?

SL: That my sons will be happy in whatever they choose to do.

On a selfish note, that I'll write a bestseller, make enough money to buy a cottage on the west coast of Ireland (with broadband and all mod cons) become a better accordion player and spend my evenings at traditional music sessions in the local pub.

MN: What is your greatest dislike?

SL: Any form of prejudice. Snobbery. Sorry, that's two!

MN: Who is your all-time hero?

SL: Martin Luther King

MN: Which person, living or dead, do you despise most?

SL: Dead: Adolf Hitler. Living: Margaret Thatcher

MN: What book is open by your bedside, and what did you read last?

SL: I've just finished reading The Da Vinci Code by Dan Brown that my son bought for my birthday. I wouldn't usually read a conspiracy thriller but it had so many twists and turns that I couldn't put it down. I'm waiting for Maeve Binchy's latest book to come out in paperback – that's more my usual escapist read. I love the way she portrays more good people than bad ones in her novels, which is the same way I like to view the world.

MN: What newspapers do you read?

SL: The (national) Guardian, The Irish Post and The Irish World. I also write a monthly column for The Lancaster Guardian.

MN: How did you vote in the last election?

SL: National election: Labour. Local election: Green. Although I hate the term New Labour and what it stands for (I preferred the socialism of the original Labour party) it is still sadly the only alternative to the Tory party getting in.

MN: What changes have you noted in and around Lancaster during your lifetime?

SL: Shopping has been transformed even during my lifetime. The rise of large supermarkets and shopping areas away from city centres has made it increasingly difficult for people without cars to shop in Lancaster. It's especially sad to see the decline of the market and the frequent threat to its position. Through my work as an oral historian I'm in frequent contact with elderly people who appear to be the worst affected by the decline in smaller grocery stores both in the city centre and their local neighbourhoods.

MN: What is the single thing that would improve the quality of life for a lot of people in Lancaster?

SL: A decent public transport system: better buses (mini-links are terrible for shoppers and older people), cheaper fares and more frequent services. Much the same as it used to be before privatisation, really!

MN: Favourite food, drink and place to go out in Lancaster? Holiday destination?

SL: I adore fish and chips - I am a vegetarian so love them cooked in vegetable oil. On my Friday nights out for relaxation, brandy and lemonade is my favourite drink, and I really enjoy going to both the John O' Gaunt and to Kampus. As for holidays, I love going to Lough Talt, County Sligo (my late dad's birthplace), or virtually anywhere in the west of Ireland.

MN: What articles do you always carry with you?

SL: The usual keys and purse, and my late dad's memorial card. I also always used to carry a packet of cigarettes everywhere before I gave up smoking a few months ago.

MN: What do you think is the most overrated virtue and (ditto) vice?

SL: Virtue: "Speaking ones mind,' is often just an excuse for rudeness. Vice: gambling - it's the only one I don't have!

MN: I believe you! Sharon, thank you very much. Shall we have a brandy now?

SL: Cheers, Michael.

Sharon Lambert: a selected list of publications

Fumigating the Cat [sic] and other stories from the Marsh History Group (ed. with Nigel Ingham) Lancaster, 2004.

Irish Women's Emigration, 1922-1960: The Lengthening of Family Ties, in Alan Hayes and Diane Urquhart (eds) Irish Women's History, Irish Academic Press (IAP), London and Portland, OR, 2004.

Irish Women in Lancashire, 1922-1960: Their Story, Centre for North West Regional Studies, Lancaster University, 2001.

Irish Women's Emigration, 1922-1960: The Lengthening of Family Ties, in Alan Hayes and Diane Urquhart (eds.) Female Experiences: Essays in Irish Women's History, IAP, Dublin, 2001.

Irish Women in the North West: their story (Lancaster University: Centre for North-West Regional Studies, 2001).

Making it Personal: Community History on The Marsh Estate, Lancaster University Centre for North-West Regional Studies, Regional Bulletin, New Series No. 15, 2001.

Monks, Martyrs and Mayors: the history of Lancaster's Roman Catholic Community and Cathedral 1094-1991, Lancaster diocese, 1991.

Some related URLs:

The Folly Aural History Project

BALH Local History Awards 2003

Lancaster University news report on Sharon Lambert

NOTE:
Sharon Lambert is not to be confused with:

Colin J Lambert, Professor of Theoretical Condensed Matter Physics [what? – Ed], University of Lancaster, or:

Lambert Simnel (c1475 – c1535), pretender to the English throne "because of his resemblance to Edward IV … crowned in Dublin as Edward VI, but after landing in Lancashire with 2,000 German mercenaries he was defeated …' (Crystal, David, 1998, The Cambridge Biographical Encyclopædia, Cambridge University Press)

Copyright © 20 September 2004 Michael Nunn